WDs ignore skeletons after crew dead

Discussion in 'Battle Bugs' started by C.Calamity, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. yeti

    yeti Captain

    That makes no sense to me...the higher the HP the less they need the WD...
     
  2. Lynsey [Midoki]

    Lynsey [Midoki] Senior Designer Staff Member

    Well, the idea was that he'd prioritising protecting groups of gunners/buccs/skellies etc over individual ones, particularly when deployed with another WD. Some players' playstyles and crew compositions will find this to be a massively positive change (I do as well as others on the team, for example, and we had no complaints from QA either!), others may find it takes a bit of getting used to. Future tweaks are always possible though!
     
    peg-brain bob likes this.
  3. yeti

    yeti Captain

    Early days, but my initial take as someone who only uses a single WD isn't positive. Understand you can't please all of the people any of the time, but haven't seen too many comments here or in guild chat that share your team and QA's opinion! Meat shields are needed to protect the DPS troops, this drags the WD straight along with them into the line of fire... Yes, yes, I will change my strat accordingly and begrudgingly :confused:

    That said, yes, this is definitely a better option than it following a lone troops to no mans land
     
  4. Raptelan

    Raptelan Captain

    Something I thought about early on when playing this game, was for there to be some settings for each troop type. Now that we have configurable range on the PH, this seems marginally more realistic, so I'll throw the idea out and see what you think.

    The idea would be to have a few toggles that control the AI of each troop in the Tavern. Things like the following:
    * WD: Prioritize high HP groups, nearest troop, or highest concentration of corpses.
    * Bomber: Prioritize nearest attackable object exclusive of walls, or inclusive of walls.
    * Gunners: Gang up for more intense attack strength, or split up and attack different targets to avoid mortar casualties.
    ...etc.

    Much like abilities, not every troop would need a toggle to start with, and more variations could be added later based on feedback.
     
  5. Raptelan

    Raptelan Captain

    More HP = better shield for the WD. At least in the case of juggs/brutes.

    In the case of a big pack of gunners, their individual HP is low and they die easy, so they benefit from the WD sticking with them. Either way, knowing how it works, you can easily use the new AI to your advantage. :)
     
    Daddy P likes this.
  6. yeti

    yeti Captain

    Love that idea!
     
  7. yeti

    yeti Captain

    Not with splash...
     
  8. Raptelan

    Raptelan Captain

    The way I attack involves sending in a WD behind some juggs towards a pile of bomber and possibly skellywag corpses. The Juggs shield the WD until he can resurrect the corpses, and then the corpses rush in ahead of the slower juggs, and mortars attack them instead. Even if the WD does get killed, it doesn't matter that much as his main job is done by that point.
     
    # Johnny Doe # likes this.
  9. yeti

    yeti Captain

    Cheers for the advice, definitely need to try a few new approaches :)
     
  10. Daddy P

    Daddy P Captain

    It's a good change, I was just unaware of it and didn't see it in the release notes. Why is ai change not included in release notes? But, perhaps the troops you mentioned (gunners, buchs, skellys) should have priority (provided there are at least a certain number of those troops to protect) over juggs and brutes since the latter need less protection and most people aren't looking for the WD to protect those troops (at least primarily). Of course if the number of gunners, for example, drops too low, then maybe the wd should shift over to other troops then. That probably sounds easier than it is to code.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  11. crash477

    crash477 Powder Monkey

    This "upgrade" definitely buffed flame gates!
    I dropped a jugg, gunners and wd and what happened? The jugg ran into the flame gate attacking the wall, the wd followed and died 10s into the battle. Well used 80k grog...
     
  12. Barbed

    Barbed First Mate

    Fire your QAs.
    After that change WD's AI to protect largest pool of damage not considering health and bombers.
    And consider calculated time for WD to get to the point to make sure its not silly to leave the smaller group to "never" reach the other one too far.
     
  13. Becker Redbeard

    Becker Redbeard First Mate

    Just taking maxed Academy 7 Jugg at 1800 HP and maxed gun at 111 HP, it will take 17 guns to distract the attention of WD from 1 Jugg. When the first one dies, Jugg would become the priority again.
    That said there's obviously nuances of how to keep the WD with the masses, but most of the humans on this Forum would say protect my 16 guns, not my 1 Jugg. The HP total method seems too simplistic of a solution, and probably should be refined IMHO.
    The better players will figure out how to adjust their attacks, but I'd wager the largest mass of players fall into the dislike category.
    We've lost two players from our guild with this update, one at least temporarily for this AI change in WD ("ruining the game"), one for "not more walls".
    The unfavorable opinion of the mass probably matters more to the ultimate popularity (and financial success) of the game than the opinions of the most skilled. Not intending to be negative, I'll figure it out. For one many are dropping Juggs from the crew.
     
  14. Becker Redbeard

    Becker Redbeard First Mate

    As a simple method of programming AI, how about prioritizing the largest group by total number of troops rather than total HP?
    After all that WAS the intention apparently, "groups of gunners/bucs/skellies over individual ones".
    The total HP method clearly does not meet that goal if 16 guns are ignored for 1 Jugg, though they are different troops for arguments sake.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
    Keelhauler Jake likes this.
  15. Daddy P

    Daddy P Captain

    Yes, players will adjust. But you shouldn't have to quit using juggs to solve the problem. I posted screenshots in another thread where the WD stood beside a jugg stuck in a jugg trap the whole battle while hordes of troops passed by. In that case, 20 gunners did not draw the attention of the WD (which, btw, the juggs went in first followed at a distance by 20 gunners with the WD behind the gunners; as soon as WD entered base, it turned to the stuck jugg and did not even follow the greater congregation of juggs within the base). It's simply a flawed ai coding that I understand Midoki is exploring and will fix if needed. I say it's needed and not just a matter of the player's skill.
     
    Becker Redbeard likes this.
  16. Raptelan

    Raptelan Captain

    i dunno about you guys, but I love it. I use juggs, gunners, bombers, skellywags, and a WD. Saved up the 6.2m grog for Voodoo Hut 5 today while keeping PR above 750 (without any map enemies, I already used those up funding other upgrades, and also with no Academy 8 trainings done yet). This AI change is the best battle enhancement that I have seen happen to this game. Speculate and complain less, adapt and play more - it's awesome once you adapt! :)
     
  17. Daddy P

    Daddy P Captain

    I'd say you were pulling our legs. But since we all have peglegs, that'd be a wasted effort.
     
  18. Raptelan

    Raptelan Captain

    I am truly not, pop over for a visit if you want to see replays! :) I have not enjoyed the game so much since Ching Shih!
     
  19. 850arrr

    850arrr Captain

    I've tried numerous combo's and nothing seems to work for me. Well the one that works is to not use juggernauts or brutes which is complete stupidity if you ask me. All my guild mates are experiencing the same witch doctor behavior and are just as frustrated as me. None of them are happy about it, none.

    Please Midoki, fix this terrible witch doctor, he's become a serious loose cannon in battle!
     
    Maverick likes this.
  20. Novagator

    Novagator Powder Monkey

    I'm baffled on how the developers thought this was a good idea? No matter what I do, the WD always runs for a Jugg now, ignoring all others, even groups.

    I would have rather deal with a wd chasing a lone gunny that a lone Jugg.

    I have WD run across the whole island to juggs on the far side ignoring all the pirates around it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015

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