Why is the AI so terrible?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Burnz, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. Tex

    Tex Commodore

    I love the idea posted earlier for a "lite" version. As a paying "subscriber" to this game I'm really disappointed to learn that we're not getting the best possible experience. Adding up my cash deposits to date I coulda easily purchased a gaming system like PlayStation 3. Which I don't mind if I'm getting real value for my investment. But in return you're giving me the equivalent of PlayStation 2 content. Careful you don't wait too long to cut support for dinosaur technology. I can't justify my continued generous support if this game doesn't continue to innovate.
     
  2. Ultimate Sea Dog

    Ultimate Sea Dog First Mate

    Agreed. I'll pay 150K gems if it means that Midoki cuts support for the crap dinosaur technology (hell, it's so thick and, well, bulky. Plus, the graphics SUCK. Just like the original iPad mini that I sometimes use.
    PP is about graphics. Why support a older-than-caveman-technology when it means that everyone else has to endure rubbish Als? JUST CUT IT PLEASE!!!!!!
     
    HornyQuokka likes this.
  3. Mercutio

    Mercutio First Mate

    I understand not wanting to alienate a segment of your customer base, but continuing to do what your doing (backwards compability) feeds into the planned obsolescence of the devices, which only angers the folks with newer technology. let's see some good ol disruptive innovation.

    not to say you need only support current devices, but ones from over 4+ years ago could be dropped.
     
    quint likes this.
  4. 850arrr

    850arrr Captain

    So basically change the way a ton of people play the game, no thanks. And no the most important aspect of 1.9 wasn't the stability, come on, he would still leave groups to follow a brute or a jug and don't forget, now with LP's that have a ton of hit points he would never leave their side if 1.9 was around.
     
  5. Bl00dBaTh

    Bl00dBaTh Captain

    While we're talking about horrible AI take a look at this, I wish I could say this is the first time this has happened, but no, no no no, it happens nearly every battle.

    Sadie starts shooting at a wall with an opening 2 squares over.
    [​IMG]

    What do you think she does then?

    Yep, you guessed it, starts shooting at the next layer of wall with an opening 3 squares over.
    [​IMG]

    I failed to get 100% because of this, as she was stuck the whole battle shooting at 2 layers of wall, I only got through the first layer after her ability reloaded. To make it worse the WD stood beside her the whole time, the first one I dropped stayed with my crew for a few seconds but then did a death run to 1 Gunner on the edge of the base, getting killed by a Mine before he got there.

    It's a complete farce at this stage, every single replay I have is a complete joke, every battle is just comical with horrible AI, it's gotten 10 times worse since this time last year. Every single battle Sadie gets stuck on walls. Every single battle my WD wanders around like a complete idiot, I mean come on, really, it's just laughable to look at the WD horrible AI, I have no idea how he actually works for some people but I can tell you he most certainly doesn't work with my crew, you shouldn't be penalised for using certain crew.

    MIDOKI don't seem to care how they're annoying people with newer phones as long as the people with their saggy skinned, geriatric, wrinkled ass phones can continue to play, if that really is the reason why the WD AI is so horrible, I doubt it. I just think they can't code him, I bet he'll never be right.

    Like how hard can it be to tell Sadie to walk through a bloody hole in the wall? Nope, I'll just spend the whole battle shooting at a wall with an opening 1 square over because I'm blind as hell, it's beyond stupid.
     
  6. Skye

    Skye Commodore

    Notice the holes are to the right of her, and she's walking to the left. They are likely one 4x4 block over, and the waypoint calculations are probably considering that 1 tile hole to be the same as 4 tiles to the right (and maybe even behind her as well!), it sounds stupid but its possibly the case. They also look partially damaged to begin with, which drastically increases the chance troops will try to destroy them (HG and Sadie and Bombers seem particularly susceptible to trying to destroy an already damaged wall).

    I've played other similar style games that have the same issue, only in those ones troops don't even bother finishing off a wall - if a building is destroyed, in some of them, I've seen a group of units switch from undamaged wall segment to undamaged wall segment, half destroying it, and changing their path when the building they were going after is destroyed, switching over and over. It isn't a problem lone to this game.

    I'd love for troops to take wall damage better into calculation. A wall with 10% HP missing shouldn't be as likely to be destroyed as it currently is - it should be going off the raw "number of shots to destroy how much hp is left", attack speed, and move speed, not just "if its partially damaged, break this even if its faster to go around". My wall path calculator doesn't take into account a bunch of the intricacies of actual layouts, but for most of the simple cases it can definitely solve the problem very fast for any amount of HP and would make a good starting point to truly fixing the situation.

    Its probably this way because people were complaining about bombers not going through walls, and they wanted kaboom to mark a wall as "break through here" on partial damage, even if it wouldn't actually be faster, to give players the option to destroy a wall that would be faster to walk around, even after partial damage. It may not be the case, but I suspect that has some sort of factor in the problem. They could restrict the behavior purely to bombers/brutes and take it out of all other troops' behaviors as a solution.

    I completely agree its stupid, and things can be done to fix it even without cutting support for the 4s, but that's my best explanation for why it is currently happening.
     
  7. Bl00dBaTh

    Bl00dBaTh Captain

    It just makes no sense whatsoever, she was completely taken out of the battle, she spent over a minute trying to go through walls that she could have walked around in 3 seconds. I also didn't even use Kaboom, any wall damage there was caused by Bombers dying, the damage to the second layer of wall that she attacked was minute, barely a scratch & she still wasted ages attacking it, all while the WD stood there beside her, why on earth do I want the WD to cover Sadie? A LP that is rarely even targeted by defences?

    The AI is just so bad lately that it's driving me nuts, every battle now there's horrible glitches, the game is going down the sink.

    And yes your reasoning for why she does it does sound stupid, very stupid, how hard can it be to code her to walk through a bloody hole in the wall? A huge group of bloody Skellywags will walk 10 bloody miles to an opening rather than go through 1 layer of max wall, then we have Sadie who you can't stop from going through walls with an opening 1 square over, it's just crazy.
     
  8. JT07

    JT07 Crew

    How can you said it is not stable?! The reason you mentioned is because you used juggs and/or brutes and is not due to instability. So there is a difference here. Which it why I said it require a change in attacking strategies and the use of pirates. Perhaps you are unwilling to adapt and change.
    I do use LPs but I don't even need them to win a raid and I can't be bothered to upgrade them, so I don't see much of a issue with ver 1.9 Witch Doctor AI. And Hell, without ver 1.9 Witch Doctor AI, the current Witch Doctor AI is following the LP!
     
  9. 850arrr

    850arrr Captain

    He wasn't stable during 1.9 either. I remember him wander all over the place trying to find the pirate with the most hit points left, he was an f'n pinball (if you magically got him to live long enough that is). Listen, neither 1.9 or the current AI was or is perfect. According to Midoki its because of the old hardware limiting the AI's ability and I would be very happy to see his AI fixed, however bringing back ver 1.9 would horrendous in my book.
     
  10. JT07

    JT07 Crew

    WHEN you used brutes and/juggs, they will bounce around like pinball as these pirates have the biggest amount of hp. Otherwise ver 1.9 Witch Doctor 1.9 is very stable. It doesn't goes searching for lone pirates to protect. At that time, I need to deploy one WD, which is more than sufficient and my WD survives. Compared to the current AI, using horrendous to describe is an understatement.
     
  11. HornyQuokka

    HornyQuokka Captain

    Just read a report couple days ago that only 5.7 % of all active iphones are an iphone 4(1.7%) or 4s(4%) so Midoki should finally stop keeping the coding low because of such devices. Same goes for Android phones. If you use a device thats older than 4-5 years you can t expect to get an endless support for all games.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  12. Bl00dBaTh

    Bl00dBaTh Captain

    Sorry but you're completely wrong, my WD is a complete idiot, he just WILL NOT protect my Skellywags, he will either run around like a headless chicken or he will spend the whole battle standing beside Sadie or my 1 HG, often I have dropped 2 & they stand right beside each other, 1 on Sadie, 1 on HG. I can pretty much pick any single replay in my log & show you horrible AI on the WD, just terrible. I'm losing battles every day & it's all down to horrible WD AI. If I drop a single Gunner anywhere on the island after the WD has been deployed he will do a death run straight to that lone Gunner, that's every single time.

    Now Sadie is getting just as bad, getting stuck on walls nearly every battle, what I try to do now is just use her ability to break through a layer of wall, I'll try to put her in front of a Bunker so it will kill her because with her alive the WD will just stand beside her, letting everyone else die.

    The AI is just killing the game, I've never before in the year & half that I've been playing this game wanted to quit, I do now & it's all down to the horrible AI, I just don't see any point in playing on when every battle makes me want to claw out my own eyes, I swear to god it's driving me nuts, I actually started slapping the screen of my iPad 20 minutes ago because the AI was so bad. It's just horrible & kills the games enjoyment.
     
  13. 850arrr

    850arrr Captain

    I get your frustration, maybe not to the point of wanting to kill my iPad but yes it does suck when you are in a clutch rumble and your troops are not doing what you'd like.

    As for my WD, here's what I do (to great success), I first drop some gunners on the outskirts to clear crap buildings then drop my bullet sponges (2 juggs) at the point of entry I have picked along with some bombers, heavy gunners and a WD. At this point the WD is staying right on the main crew while the outlying gunners are still far away clearing out the crap. Once the bombers make a hole in the area I want I dump my skellys and more gunners. At this point the WD usually walks back to said latest group. He then usually stays with the them well into the base reviving all the dead bombers first and then fallen skellys. I never bring more than on WD and almost always get the WD to live till the end of the battle. Now of course this doesn't work every single time because as the bunch splits up and or get trapped the WD does get confused a bit but almost always finds a heavy gunner and stays with him to the point where he will get close to a pile of dead skellys to revive and finish off the base.
     
  14. JT07

    JT07 Crew

    @Bl00dBaTh , I will totally agree with you that current Witch Doctor AI is screwed up. I do not understand why it is protecting LP. And it is not only to Sadie but to Bart, Ching and Blackbeard too. And yes, randomly it enjoy sticking to a lone HG/jugg.
    That is why I'm saying Witch Doctor 1.9 AI is very stable compared to current Witch Doctor AI!
     
    Bl00dBaTh likes this.
  15. 850arrr

    850arrr Captain

    My WD doesn't go after the LP. I get that you somehow liked 1.9 but the majority of players here hated it with passion (me especially), there were voting threads galore about changing him back. There was thread after thread after thread about how bad 1.9 was, it was actually the reason I signed up on this forum as I was so outraged about the 1.9version change. When they finally put him back to the original AI (after his stint of being invincible) I didn't see any outrage at all, not like when 1.9 came out.

    Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a change to the current WD AI and not just his, there are others that are just as screwed but going back to 1.9 is laughable. Lets all hope that the support for the old iPhone 4 goes by by in the near future so we can finally have some good AI.
     
  16. JT07

    JT07 Crew

    That is why I mentioned before you are very lucky that you didn't encountered. But you didin't encountered doesn't means the problem doesn't exist. It is not somehow I liked, it should be I, including my guild, give my full support to Witch Doctor 1.9 AI. And if you did read Lynsey's post, there are voices asking for 1.9 AI back.

    Yes yes, I read the threads. However, there are others who enjoy the 1.9 AI as they found ways to their raiding strategies to adapt to the change. Those clamouring to revert back is due to their preference and insistence in having juggs and/or brutes as their mix. And there comes the voting or should I put it as a mild coercion for Midoki to revert back to the AI.
     
  17. Ultimate Sea Dog

    Ultimate Sea Dog First Mate

    Heck. GOODNESS ME @JT07 can't you JUST DUN USE ANY LP? I either use BB, Annabelle, Ching or none at all. And my 2 WDs NEVER EVER does things like that.
     
  18. JT07

    JT07 Crew

    Heck. GOODNESS ME @Ultimate Sea Dog didn't you READ MY EARLIER POST??!! Mentioned earlier, I don't need LP to win a raid. I believe Skye mentioned it too.
    And it didn't happened to you, doesn't means it didn't happened to anyone else. Did you miss reading that Bl00dbath have the issue too??
    To use 2WDs, hmmnnn, is a tad too much........
     
    Alphafox likes this.
  19. Ultimate Sea Dog

    Ultimate Sea Dog First Mate

    Well, I use only 1 HG, after all.
     
  20. 850arrr

    850arrr Captain

    Lucky you not needing an LP (please don't mention Skye, he's superhuman).....the rest of us mere mortals do need an LP to win. Also, why should someone have to stop using Juggs, Brutes and LP's because the AI of one character is messed up, its insane and dumb AI programming.

    Plus BloodBath hated 1.9 too, I vary clearly remember his rants and colorful language :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016

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